Diverse Fats: a call to action
There’s a show that’s long-since expired (I do believe) that had a great theme song, You’re Not The Boss of Me. The jingle is playing in my brain as I type this. As I sipped my afternoon soda and prepared for a weekend of fun and dirt, I read the most recent Shapely Prose post. Now I’m not generally a Prose follower but a friend asked me to check on the most recent post and report back on how I felt. I did just that.
In this post Kate Harding, site administrator and famous Fattie to boot posts an announcement of a new blogger joining the troupe. This blogger was admittedly more of the same white, smaller-fat/inbetweenie-fat, able-bodied cloth that the other Prose bloggers were cut from but Harding listed the reasons why that was eventually okay with her. Because she wasn’t originally looking for a new blogger, because this new person didn’t generally piss her off and the other bloggers liked her it seemed reasonable to include her while continuing to exclude other diverse fats out in the blog-o-sphere and/or wanting to join the fat-o-sphere.
Reading through the piece I found Harding to be relatively well-meaning and the other bloggers to have good intentions. They recognized their’ Wonder Bread so directly that was good enough, right? Right? RIGHT?
Nope. Step 1: admit you have a problem.
Step 2: work on fixing it.
There are so many diverse fat-o-sphere bloggers and so many more not being heard. I happen to be one of the only fat-acceptance bloggers who is and writes about disability. The Rotund and others at Fatshionista include Super-(Death)Fat. Curvy Girl Style! and The Curvy Fashionista [see also Young, Fat, & Fabulous and Nudemuse -L.] bring women of color to this mix and on and on and on. We’re here, and we have always been here. So why aren’t we being heard?
While the only change we can see happen as diverse fats is to get out there and talk, we have to be heard too, no? Privileged fats, those who are white or able-bodied or socio-economically sound or generally Western or smaller-fat, etc. etc. etc. need to listen, hear, welcome, and seek out the thoughts and opinions of their diverse community members. Not as special guests, not as one-hit wonders who make inciteful comments or cute webcomics but rather as movement members, fellow laborers who are working the land in our own way with similar goals. We may not all agree with eachother; this comes from coming from different types of cloth, but we can respect and incldue one another.
I welcome diverse fats to speak up and implore privileged fats to include us, value us and open those fattie mcfatfat arms so we can all sing you’re not the boss of me now and you’re not so big to the entire fat-phobic world, rather than to each other.
What’s it gonna take? When do we step up and include? When do we hear each other? When do we all matter?
What’s it gonna take? When do we step up and include? When do we hear each other? When do we all matter?
Good post, and good questions! I wish I had answers though. There are millions of things I would love to say on the subject, but I wouldn’t even know where to begin. I totally respect bloggers that do say it.
What I can say is that as a latina, low income fatty I rarely feel represented in the movement. Speaking up hasn’t helped much in the past either, which is why I generally just lurk. Honestly I feel nervous even posting this comment right now (I’ve changed my mind about 5 times now). In the end it has to be said if we expect any change, and I’m glad there are people out there that continue to say it.
I’d like my voice to be heard.
Honestly, I had the same reaction as you, and I am also a white, straight fatso. Even the NFL has a rule that at least one minority applicant has to be interviewed for any coaching job. We don’t get a pass just because we’re nominally progressive.
Why aren’t there more spaces in the fatosphere for diverse voices? Not just a predominantly-white site with guest bloggers but an all-black and/or latina blog, the kind I subscribe to in other progressive disciplines? It seems to me that fat politics is so tied up with race and sexuality that those spaces are sorely missed.
I had similar feelings as a queer death-fatty who read that post. It’s Kate’s blog, so of course she can knock herself out and do what she wants with it, but all of the talk of trying to make diversity sounds like a damn lot of lip service when the 4th blogger to be added displays all the privileges of the first 3. I’m sure A Sarah has lots of wonderful things to say, but that’s not the point. There are also queer, death-fat, low SES, POC, and fats with disabilities that are great writers who would benefit from a bigger audience. By Kate’s own admission, she chose someone that provides solidarity of opinion and acknowledges that this is likely because they all share so many of the same characteristics.
And isn’t what we know about the spread of privelege is that it is often passed around in a “club” of people who are comfortable with each other because their similar? I know Kate knows this—but as you said, knowing it isn’t enough. It doesn’t change the end result if that knowledge isn’t acted upon.
I think if Kate truly wants to diversify the bloggers on her site, she’ll have to become comfortable with the fact that she might not agree with what a co-blogger might say. I see this on Feministing quite a bit, which has a very diverse group of bloggers on it. It wouldn’t be personally comfortable for Kate by a long shot, but it would benefit the Fatosphere.
I’m biracial, over 300 lbs, do not have the luxury or ability to go all over due to not enough money and no car, and I started a blog back in March, called Life on Fats. Unfortunately, it doesn’t get hardly any hits because it’s not part of the fatosphere feed, and I really don’t shamelessly self promote it. But I am another voice from a different perespective.
While most of us are familiar with fat-hating trolls, we do need more people who are on board with FA but not as cliquey.
As someone who’s had really unfortunate run ins with Shapelings in the past and who has stopped reading SP since then because of it, I am not at all surprised. Intersectionality and a commitment to representing multiracial voices has never been their forte.
I just wanted to mention, regarding the Fatosphere feed, is that as far as I know, Fu has not updated the feed in a long time. I have been trying to get in touch with her over the last few months and find out what’s going on, but so far I have been unsuccessful. I’m her coblogger, and I don’t even have any idea if she’s planning on participating any more. (I do see her logged into a messenger service, although she doesn’t respond to messages there either, so I assume she’s still around somewhere.)
If she goes AWOL much longer, I suppose something will need to be done to reorganize the feed or start another one, but I have no access to the current listing or authority to change it myself. That’s something Fu has in her private stash. But I would not infer that if a blog hasn’t been added yet that it’s being deliberately excluded.
And I think the “You’re Not the Boss of Me” song is from Malcolm in the Middle, if memory serves. It went off the air a few years ago but it had a good long run.
I recognize that I walk an interesting road in the Oppression Olympics. As a Jewish woman, I am what white America considers exotic looking, but I pass as white. I pass as Christian. I pass at whatever someone wants to think I am as long as they don’t ask. As a bisexual engaged to a man, I pass as straight. As a person with ADD that’s under control, I can even pass as normal. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I would be interested in hearing a Jewish voice. I’m never sure If I count towards diversity or not, but I’m here and deviate from normal.
For some reason, my comment isn’t going through? Oh, irony. I’m trying again.
Excuse the forthcoming novel…
I can’t say this surprises me, either.
At times when I have been a regular reader of Shapely Prose (including recently, though I was quickly… re-discouraged*), A Sarah has made many on-point (and certainly well-written) comments. In my personal estimation, she is at least as privilege-aware as the other co-bloggers, if not significantly moreso.
So, that’s fine and all.
But, as seems to be the MO at SP, there’s a lot of lovely lipservice and more of the same-old, same-old (this time with a disclaimer about folks running to Kate’s aid). Sure, SP could add a “more diverse” blogger in the future, but I fail to see how going from 3 almost-as-privileged-as-possible white women to 4 almost-as-privileged-as-possible white women is going to sweeten the pot for the theoretical pool of future co-bloggers.
I’m trying to choose my words carefully here, but I feel like I’m hearing, “Yeah, I care about diversity but I REALLY REALLY LIKE THIS WOMAN AND OMG JUST THIS ONE TIME, OKAY?!” Which… I wouldn’t say is not understandable, but it’s still pretty irresponsible IMO.
With the new book, SP has a growing bully pulpit, and it’s a shame they haven’t taken the opportunity to expand– and by expanding, *improve* and increase the efficacy of– their community and their message. Of course A Sarah will add something. Sure. She seems like a stand-up and intellectually curious kind of person. But the simple solidifying presence of additional white, etc., etc. middle-classness may take away more from the FA community (and its general direction) than she adds as an individual.
The bigger issue is that the Internet, like the “real world,” is dominated by these kinds of voices, and it takes *active*, *hard* work to even make a little auditory dent in the kyriarchy (or kyriarchy minus one oppression) din. (IDK– I feel like I am having flashbacks to the LJ-feminist community.) IME, just to give one example, the only place the voices of WOC are really heard are spaces that are A) controlled by and B) 2/3 or more WOC. IOW, you can’t just passively hope to attract less-privileged voices, because I guarantee that your more-privileged voice is already grating like nails on a chalkboard in a register you cannot hear, and even if it is not (but really, it is), your white/etc. face is attracting other white/etc. faces who are used to conversing with other white/etc. faces, etc., etc. It’s an ongoing, hard-fought battle to reach a truly diverse audience, and it never ends.
SP– and mainstream FA in general (like mainstream gay rights, feminism, etc.)– attracts narcissistic rage (credit bell hooks). It attracts tons of folks who believe the world would be right if just *their* pet issue were resolved– as if it could be resolved in a vacuum. I know a lot of WOC, again, just an example, who read and got *something* out of SP at *some* point. But the whole thing– the whole community– got pretty tiresome, pretty irrelevant, pretty frustrating… pretty quickly. The reason Kate Harding didn’t see and choose an A Sarah who was OC, disabled, trans, etc., is because most such folks just aren’t up to sweeping that same sand off that same shore and sticking it out for months or years at a time– whilst wittily slicing and dicing, and oh yeah– living their lives.
Shapely Prose is a hostile environment. To a lot of people.
Perhaps that sounds unfair. But the world and the prevailing worldview, when it is not constantly, *consistently* and thoroughly challenged, is kinda… a hostile environment.
When you choose not to challenge the status quo, you choose to reinforce it.
It’s not a d@mning moral judgment from On High. But it is what it is.
*There were a couple of things that reminded me not to expend my energy at SP, but the most disheartening was when I tried to discuss the ways in which fatphobia affects/is specifically and disproportionately applied to the most disenfranchised. It wasn’t something I said with the intention of challenging anyone– I thought it was a pretty straightforward example and pretty obvious point. But it seemed that all the comments in reply took offense to the idea that I was lumping “all fat people” (read: them) in with “stereotypes” (read: poor people, WOC, et al.) Ehhh… Never mind.
“Privileged fats…need to listen, hear, welcome, and seek out the thoughts and opinions of their diverse community members.”
Yes! YES!
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. About how it’s fairly common place in progressive circles to recognise and acknowledge privilege, but that’s where it seems to stop. Recognising “their [my, our] Wonder Bread so directly” ISN’T good enough. Acknowledging privilege doesn’t change anything if you just go right ahead and assert that privilege anyway.
It’s something I’ve been struggling with how to confront in myself and others for a little while.
I love the conversation happening here. I am cringing with desdiamonds because I too stuttered over writing this. It’s not about personal choices but about the community we’re in and whether or not this moving train is going to acknowledge all the passengers riding it.
When I spoke to Lesley about the SP post I said that while I want to fume, I expect this. Like Tara said, it does not surprise me. When you’re used to being forgotten, it’s hardly abnormal to be forgotten and called out by Good White Liberals ™ who mean well but…..miss the mark.
I would encourage Bree to maybe jump on here, write about death-fatness, etc. and pimp that blog! Hopefully the amazing Lesley can get a link to it on this site.
We’ve got to build eachother up - we’ve got to work together.
We can’t just keep yammering, right? We’ve got to work.
I have no idea what that means, friends - what the hell do we do NOW?!
etana, AFAICT, the only thing I’ve seen be effective (and it can be *very* effective– see Verb Noire) in these cases is when folk set up their own alternative spaces. Fats.com is already the most inclusive space I’ve seen, so folk could start here or take it to a new place, but it needs to be well-organized and come out in full-force right away. IMHO, etc. It could be a sort of blog collective, too.
@Dreamy I wish I could say that the FA internets-land will take this post and embrace the diversity on the ‘nets - Curvy Girl Style! or The Rotund or us or Life on Fats or perhaps some of the others I’m leaving out - - - - but yeah.
Perhaps we can get more diverse folks here at Fats? Any risers to teh occassion?
Also, reading newer comments at SP… I’m just really put off by Kate Harding’s insistence that “…I don’t even think we’re divided on this one, actually. It’s not like one side is calling for diversity and the other is like NO! WE NEED MOAR WHITE PEOPLE!”
I’m having flashbacks. No, I’m… pretty sure we are divided. (Is it white female socialization that has folk insist they’re on the same page?) It may or may not be an impassable chasm, but that’s kinda the whole thing about aversive racism/oppression vs. overt. Where’s Bonilla-Silva when you need him? Oh, yeah (PDF).
I mean… in a more sophisticated package, there’s a sort of “I know what I’m doing wrong, therefore it’s okay. Well, not *okay*, of course, it’s completely unacceptable for these 14 well-considered reasons, (but I’m still doing it).” It’s like… being “Yes’ed” to death.
It sounds like you’re assuming that the only way to be heard is if Kate Harding lets you write on her website.
I would have thought you all would have had a bit more self-confidence than that :)
Be heard on your own. If you want a more diverse representation, you can create it yourselves. Don’t rely on Kate, or anyone else, to *allow* you to be heard. Sure, she has one of the more visible blogs on fat acceptance, but that doesn’t mean that yours doesn’t exist or that you can’t get more traffic, visitors, etc.
If you want something, create it. Don’t wait for someone else to do it.
@eriadorain You have completely overshot the point. Etana is suggesting exactly that - that diverse voices should come together and discuss how to be heard, how to work with one another, how to support and respect our differences in the interest of creating a stronger movement.
I kind of wonder if you even read the post.
@Dreamy - I think you’re right on. Throwing in a couple of token “diverse” voices into the mix of a culture that isn’t already built on recognizing, appreciating, including, and centering the voices of the most marginalized is a recipe for disaster.
And how do I know? Because I and so many other folks I know have tried to be that lone (or one of few) voice(s) in hostile spaces and it seriously is like running an uphill marathon on sandpaper stilettos. At some point, I learned to value my sanity over my desire to fight those battles, which is why I and many other folks have left spaces like SP.
Though I think folks are sticking to the topic at hand thus far, I’d like to make clear to future commenters that this thread is intended to be a space for critical discussion of the lack of suffcient diversity in both fat-blogger-dom AND in FA in general. It is not a space for generalized Shapely Prose and/or Kate-bashing. I am saying this only because I don’t want to see this conversation turn unproductive and just plain ugly. Thanks.
Thank you so much for this post. It reminds me of why I stopped reading SP. I find it really frustrating when people talk about how awesome the commentators are there, or how it’s such a great community, when I consistently found it to be a hostile environment.
What frustrates me to no end, is that Kate had an opportunity to really put her money where her mouth is, and decided not to. Yes yes, I get she really likes A Sarah, etc. etc. That’s not the point. Both Kate and A Sarah recognized there was a problem with having yet another white straight cisgendered small fat blogger, and decided to “eh, fuck it.” Why is diversity so unimportant?
It’s really depressing to have yet another “Oh you people need to wait until
we, the majority, decide it’s time for you to get a voice.” Seriously, fuck that noise.
@etana
I have some thoughts about increasing diversity on fats.com but they’re not really pulled together. I’ll comment later.
@Bree what is the URL of your blog? I’d love to read it.
Also, I haven’t delved deep into comments at SP because, I’ve found reading comments there uses up my Sanity Watcher’s points. It’s sad that a FA blog would make me feel that way.
@sparkymonster The url is http://lifeonfats.wordpress.com
Living~400lbs also linked me on her sidebar too.
Hello Hello ladies! and gents, if you are there too!
First and foremost, thank you for the love you gave above. And second for addressing this!
As a newbie blogger, I have noticed what you observed, however, I forged on, hoping that my message would be somewhat relevant to others.
As I approach fashion, I do my best to cover the best of fashion with an extremely diverse range of models and perspectives- even the ones who disagree with me, as I feel it only adds depth to any discussion.
It is extremely unfortunate that there is such a higschool elitism when it comes to the plus size blogging community, I think expressing many points of views allows an even better and well rounded discussion and support for the community.
As a WOC, I could easily only focus on those who I primarily identify with, but last I checked, plus size did not show itself to one race, or class… with that, I know that high fashion does not speak to only one view…
Sorry for my long winded ness, but it is situations like this that as I gear up for full figure fashion week, those who will cover the event, we made sure to reach out and catch someone from a different view and perspective… just for reasons like this!
I would love your opinions and thoughts of what I bring, comments and shououts are appreciated,
Keep it Curvy.Confident.Chic.
Marie Denee
The Curvy Fashionista
www.thecurvyfashionista-mariedenee.com
Thanks for the shout out. I have a post going that you’ve inspired Etana however I am running on stupid currently.
First off, Marie, I love your blog. Love it.
Secondly, I believe there is a reason (as speculated at SP) that most of the WOC’s fat-related blogs don’t seem like FA blogs (but rather fashion blogs) to white women. Not because WOC are somehow more fashion-obsessed or less affected by fatphobia, but because, again… The fewer oppressions that affect you, the more likely you are to hyperfocus on the one (maybe one of two) that really stick in your craw, and– not to beat my favorite dead horse– not integrate anti-oppression into your positionality in a truly intersectional way. I know tons of bloggers OC who write about fatphobia. Just, perhaps, not in a way white folks in general would recognize as such. And not so much as a singular focus, or a unifying flag to rally around. It just doesn’t… make sense to divide things that way, for most folks.
The vast majority of my friends of color are fat, and pro-FA, in the purely anti-fatphobia sense. Well-informed and “getting it” on a visceral level and everything. They’re just not into the mainstream FA movement. Kinda in the same way lots of WOC don’t ID as feminists even though they are, in a semantic vacuum, hardcore “feminists.” IME, etc.
Thirdly… You know… Not directed at anyone or any recent comment here or elsewhere, but just FTR– I have exactly zero vested interest in “calling out” SP or Kate Harding specifically, and I certainly don’t feel any personal *animosity* towards her. It’s just that when you are a major force/face in a movement, you take the bad (well, “bad”) with the good. Your words are more closely scrutinized, and they may be used as examples of widespread and very general, systemic problems with the movement. In exchange, you get a book deal and much positive publicity, praise, thousands of fans, etc.
I just don’t appreciate the defensive attitude I have seen (and continue to see) that this is somehow all about people being “mean” to and “bullying” earnest and well-meaning Kate (who, by the way– according to some SP commenters– totally owns her blog and can do whatever she wants, so if you don’t like it, why don’t you just shut up? Ugh, speaking of bullying). Lesley, you are 110% right that this should not be taken as some kind of license to Kate Harding-bash. It’d be pretty freaking counter-productive. Speaking only for myself, when I critique the site and the bloggers, I do appreciate the fact that there are real human beings on the other end of the computertromitron. I’ve even, you know, met some of them in person and exchanged genuine pleasantries and whatnot. But that, of course, doesn’t mean that their problematic words and behavior are not worth challenging and deconstructing. (Again, not directing this at your comment, Lesley, just speaking generally. Doesn’t seem like it should need repeating, but apparently…)
Fourthly, and related to the above, all of this made me go back and look at the last time I recall a “race-related controversy” at SP– the one that involved Julia, Tara, myself and several others in August of last year. It’s not worth rehashing, but I was struck by the fact that, apparently, some time after I left the thread alone, several commenters suggested more guest posters and/or a co-blogger of color and all three of the co-bloggers affirmed that this was a priority for them. So… once again, I don’t think my earlier comment re: lipservice was out of left field. When push comes to shove, it’s just easier to go with the flow. Man, we have *all* taken that way out at some point, in some situation. But it’s always deserving of criticism.
Lastly (Thank God, amirite? I guess I save all this stuff up and let it out every six months or so)… As I alluded to etana above, I’m not sure anyone can build a better SP, you know? I’ve been in or observed several communities like SP (LJ-feminist, for one), and the bottom line is that any mainstream, major unifying force in a mainstream, major (such as it is) movement almost can’t help but attract a membership/readership that is largely privileged enough to be able to give that one movement primacy, YKWIM? To underline what I said before, the only thing I have seen work in these cases is for folk to create an alternative space (such as the LJ-comm sex_and_race). Because when disenchanted/marginalized folks create their own space, it can be run with the rules they choose, and it doesn’t have to look like a brown-washed (or woman-washed or whatever) privileged space, YK? Just like the alternative to patriarchy isn’t a world where women rule over men, the alternative to SP isn’t going to look like SP with brown/disabled/queer/poor faces. And that’s a great thing.
Dreamy,
Thanks for the love and your words ring so true. It is interesting your points all made and all very true!
While we sit here and air “frustrations” about what is and isn’t going on or available, and maybe I am extremely over optimistic, where do we go from here? Are we going to sit around, or do we forge on hoping that our words of encouragement (as bloggers) touch someone, make its affect and are of some purpose?
When I came to Fatshionista, the love and openess I read was AMAZING and continues to be! I love that we are able to have this conversation, address issues that concern us, but what do we take from it? Where do we go from here?
I must honestly say that this is definitely motivation for another post- declaring my fabulously fat behind just as fashionable as the straight woman.
I have been working in retail for like 12 years and have experienced an amazing frustration and confusion when it comes to fashion- so I guess- yes, this is my motivation…
Get it ladies, and brava to you for so eloquently stating your opinions in a positive and edifying way!
This thick soul sista is off to write! :)
Etana,
Don’t know if it’s any comfort, but after speaking to Kate at one of her readings about the lack of disability voices on her site and in the fatosphere in general, I was invited to write a guest-post.
Who knows, maybe if she decides she likes me (and I start writing more FA and as well as my disability stuff) she’ll pick me up as well. And that’d at least be ONE diverse voice there - I’m white, raised middle class but currently disabled grad student broke, but I am disabled.
Best,
Kali
I guess because all of this is so new to me (fat acceptance in general), my first reaction to this “discussion” is that it’s sad when one group of fat acceptance bloggers trashes another group of fat acceptance bloggers. Don’t we fat folks get trashed enough? I haven’t ventured out into the big bad world of FA very far, but I thought the point was “acceptance”. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would think the readership of any blog would go down if it insisted on catering to a specific sub-group. So what, the white middle-class fat chicks are “too privileged” to understand discrimination? Give me a break. Being obese is more accepted in the lesbian community, the Hispanic community, and the black community. Being obese in the “privileged” white middle-class world is like being a leper. We should be sharing our stories about being discriminated against, not playing a game of “I’m more discriminated against than YOU are”. Just my 2 cents.
@DeirdreKM - To put it gently, I think your response is very normal for someone to whom all of this is very new. I strongly encourge you to continue to read these discussions - and ALL the comments - very carefully, with an open mind.
Regarding specifically the fairy tale that fatness is more “accepted” in the lesbian community, Latino community, and/or Black community, I suggest you read Julia’s posts on this site. I’ve written a post that is also related to this topic myself.
I can assure you, listening to people’s different experiences, respecting diversity, and welcoming people with intersectional identities besides “just being fat” is NOT “catering to a specific sub-group”. It is, instead, part and parcel of building a movement against fat hatred that is rooted in social justice, respect, and fairness, and which leaves no one behind.
I’ve been watching and listening and posting a little bit about this but mostly I’m trying to figure out what I can do differently as a solo blogger.
Sometimes, I feel like a lone voice who proudly represents myself as a fat diabetes (type 2) blogger, who is white, who has a BMI of 43, who is Jewish, who is 40 (meaning, old for a blogger), who is married to a man of color who is an immigrant, who is married to a person with a chronic and serious mental illness, who has a biracial daughter, and the many aspects of my identity are there for everyone to see. I recently stumbled upon The Curvy Fatshionista, and I love her blog, as well as Shannon’s Nudemuse. I value and “vote with my mouse” in terms of reading blogs by WOC, and if I feel uncomfortable from time to time, well, I figure that’s me needing to keep my mind open and tolerate a little discomfort. What I like about SP is exactly the same as what I don’t like about it — it’s popular.
I don’t think it’s for anyone else to figure out for me what my response needs to be, but this post has given me much food for thought.
Sometimes, I am intimidated by Fatsionista because I feel less than stylish (although I’ve been told lately that I am a stylish dresser) and I am afraid to say the wrong thing in commenting on something I’m not an expert on, I do read every Fatshionista post that shows up on the Fatosphere feed.
I realize that my very personal, TMI style might not be something everyone is interested in, and that I make plenty of mistakes in writing (being someone who has little time and sometimes forgets to spell check), so I don’t worry if not too many people come and read my blog.
Looks like my comment was eaten… sorry if this shows up twice!
I realize this is a few days late so people may not see it, but I’ll put it out there anyway. I’m Ojibwe/Chippewa (two names for the same tribe). I’ve come across very few fellow Native Americans in the fat-o-sphere with the exception of the occasional LJ Fats OOTD or flamewar regarding cultural appropriation and fashion moccasins, so I’m trying to update my own blog more often in an effort to get my voice heard/read/indefinitely suspended in the intertubes. The intersectionality of being a Native woman (with light skin and a certain degree of “passing” privilege, but also “passing” as Asian or Latina or just “…what are you?” in addition to white depending on how ignorant the person looking at me happens to be), a death fat (5′7″, ~310 lbs) and having my general life experience has shaped who I am in an enormous way. Everyone’s story is unique to them, but I think it’s especially important to hear diverse perspectives in addition to all of the white, middle class, able-bodied inbetweenie stories within the FA movement.
Anyway, shameless plug alert: http://ampleproportions.wordpress.com/
SP isn’t a place I expect a lot of energy around intersectionality, so I didn’t find that decision either surprising or disappointing, just a continuation of its core brand.
I’m delighted that so many FA bloggers of color, FA bloggers living with disabilities, and other FA bloggers who are working from an intersectional perspective are giving links in this thread.
Maybe an FA Intersectionality Feed would also help promote a broader range of voices–of course, I know maintaining a feed is hard work, so I feel a bit guilty suggesting it since it’s not the kind of hard work I do myself; on the other hand, I’d be glad to contribute $$ to a “seed fund” for a FA Intersectionality Feed.
Maybe an FA Intersectionality Feed would also help promote a broader range of voices
I’m thinking the same thing! I am willing to administrate a feed, if nobody else volunteers, and a few of us are talking about joining forces in a diversity-focused blogger-collective deal, for which I’ve expressed my willingness to donate bandwidth and my meager site-building skills, if needed. This conversation has really inspired a lot of folks to think creatively about what can be done proactively on this subject, and I’m just so happy about it I could pop.
Woohoo to the idea about a feed AND the bloggers speaking up.
@Dreamy I hope I didn’t come off as stating that SP needed to bulk up on diversity and/or fix themselves in some way; rather that I’m pointing at the fat-o-sphere in general and asking why, why, WHY is it so Wonder Bread? How can we as diverse fats speak up?
@DeirdreKM Lesley said virtually everything I would say except that too fatness is a part of a whole diverse group of oppressed peoples, and that while fatness may be the only oppression-ish thing you ID with, it’s important to remember that your fat community includes me and a whole bunch of other people who have to deal with and represent not only fatness but a whole lot of other ‘isms as well. Meaning that Fat as a community is not inherently an ooey gooey love-fest if you’re different, diverse or Other in some way. I recommend checking out some of the other blogs we’ve been linking to in this post/thread and continuing to think about what diversity means to you.
This is a HUGE topic, pun intended.
Etana, all the diverse voices you mention already have their own blogs. IMHO, it’d be pretty freakin’ patronizing to ask someone with her own damn blog to come be the token and up SP’s liberal cred.
Personally, I read SP for the snarky/nerdy/cultural deconstruction angle, which is consistent across all the current writers. I haven’t found that kind of incision and single focus elsewhere in the fatosphere (regardless of the privilege status of the writer). A lot of other blogs on the main fat feeds read more like personal blogs–they mix fat/cultural criticism stuff with “here’s what I ate for lunch today and here are some cute pictures of my pets.” Nothing wrong with that kind of blog, but no surprise if it doesn’t attract readers who want to know they can find reflection on a given topic, at a given level of challenge, on a fairly consistent basis.
I don’t blame Kate, SM and FJ for seeking a consistent voice. Jezebel, for one, has gotten rid of some truly quality writers and picked up some not so funny ones, and it does dilute the brand. Representation of diversity is obviously an important value, but surely the Fatshionista community can get that there’s also value in consistency of style.
@Other Kate
Why do you assume that diversity in bloggers would dilute the snarky/nerdy/cultural deconstruction angle? Is there a reason you think a POC or person with disabilities wouldn’t post about these things? Similarly, why do you think that a blogger who isn’t white, cisgendered, and straight would “dilute the brand”? You seem to be assuming that a hypothetical blogger that SP picked up who wasn’t just like them, would not be as good. Why is that?
SP could have tried to find a co-blogger who is simliar in style, who isn’t also white, straight, cisgendered, middle class and smaller fat. They didn’t. They have posted more than once saying that diversity is important to them and talking about how they wanted to have guest posts from people who aren’t just like them. They haven’t followed through on that at all.
Also, by mentioning the diversity issue and then waving it away with “oh but we *like* this person” they are minimizing and trivializing the very real issue that their blog presents a very narrow view point, and one that, aside from FA, is quite mainstream.
Additionally, SP is reinforcing the idea that FA is something for white people, for smaller fats, for straight women, for cis women, for middle class women, etc. They’re recentering dialogue around those identities *and* being dismissive of attempts to discuss it.
I’m incredibly disappointed.
@etana
Your call to action has inspired me. So, here’s a Latina, first generation, death fat, autoimmune disorder blog: http://polianarchy.dreamwidth.org I’ll post my very first post ASAFP!
@Other Kate you missed the boat entirely. Please reinsert your coins and read the blog again.
@polianarchy ROCK. I will add you to the post then!
@ sparkymonster–I don’t assume that a blogger who isn’t just like the current SP writers would dilute the brand based on demographics. I was trying to make the point that it’s valid to choose a coauthor based on writing style rather than just seeking demographic diversity, which seemed to be what most of these comments were urging. It would be great to see SP add writers who can do that style and level of analysis _and_ bring lenses that don’t already exist in that blog, of course. I’m sure such writers are out there and don’t currently have their own blogs, and hope they would put themselves forward.
@Other Kate–
If you don’t mind, could you please indicate which comments urged SP to choose a coauthor “just” to add demographic diversity? I don’t see them, possibly because simple representative demographic diversity is not the goal of etana or any of the commenters here. Why is it that you perceive/d folk here to be demanding, essentially, a token? Framing frustration at a lack of inclusivity* as a demand for a sort of… affirmative action for the unqualified strikes me as a knee-jerk misreading worthy of personal reflection.
As far as “diverse” commenters having a responsibility to “put themselves forward”… I’d like to gently suggest that you– and others (including the authors of SP!) who have made such comments– re-read Sparkymonster’s comments here. To attract marginalized people to a majority-dominated space, to make them feel at all welcome, you must make an effort. Why in the world anyone would “put themselves forward” in a hostile space? And yet, the funny thing is… The fact is that every single marginalized person who refuses to engage (or refuses to frequently or regularly engage) in discussion with relatively privileged people? Refuses because he/she/zie has been down that road already. Has put her/himself forward. Many, many times. To have become disenchanted, one must have been enchanted– or at least invested– at one point or another. Which is the sad thing, and the thing that makes you want to laugh to keep from crying, when folk directly or indirectly accuse you of “prejudging” privileged people and not making enough of an effort to “understand” their position– or tell you to just be quiet and subjugate your needs and concerns to the needs and concerns of folks who, well– aren’t willing to listen to yours.
*Inclusivity is valuable not because it makes a pretty picture or checks a box, but because drawing on the very diverse experiences of the entire population strengthens a movement by providing a more complete solution to a deep social problem. The more a person is privileged, the more that person is closed off to the intersections of oppression. Inclusion of differing perspectives– especially those which are routinely ignored– like a rising tide, helps lifts all ships.
@Other Kate
I have an essay in “Lessons from the Fat-O-Sphere” (edited by Kate of SP and Marianne of The Rotund) so it’s not like Kate doesn’t know I exist or hates my writing.
I stopped participating in SP because I found the space to be hostile towards me as a woman of color. The community of people at SP (which includes commenters) consistently said things that displayed both ignorance around race, but also a lack of interest in educating themselves. I put in hours of time trying to engage in dialogue and failed. I contacted Kate and SM privately about this. While there some problematic things said in e-mail, they both claimed that SP is interested in creating a more diverse space. I’ve been waiting about a year for the promised guest bloggers and other attempts at inclusion.
Given how SP acted in response to people’s mild call outs on the lack of diversity (I’m referring both to the bloggers and the community of people who comment), I have little faith left in their interst in diversity. Also, the comments are creating a community that is hostile towards people who aren’t white, straight, cisgendered, middle class, etc. Given that they’ve created a hostile space, why would diverse voices want to come there and be insulted? Why isn’t the onus on SP to make a space that is welcoming AND to extend a hand in friendship rather than telling people to “fuck off”?
@ Dreamy –Thank you for making the point that it takes effort to make a space welcoming and that the onus shouldn’t be on excluded people to “put themselves forward.” You are right about that. I’m not a real frequent commenter at SP, but I am an avid reader, and I’m sorry to hear from sparkymonster and others that the commenters and authors over there don’t make them feel welcome. I agree that the onus is on the main community to stretch itself and make itself welcoming, not to blame those who feel excluded for not constantly knocking at the door. And I don’t blame anyone for giving up after trying to teach “x 101″ a million times and just letting a community fall in on itself–that’s a choice I’ve made in my own life.
It was actually Etana’s own post that seemed to me to be urging demographic diversity over consistency of style and content, and that’s what I was reacting to. Based on what I know of the other blogs she offered as examples–and I don’t read all of them–Etana’s own writing is much more stream of consciousness than SP, Nudemuse is much more gentle in tone and not snarky like SP, and Marianne cowrote a book and does a ton of interviews, so it’s not like she was being silenced. I thought it was ironic that on a blog about fashion–about sending messages through style–those differences weren’t acknowledged.
I’ve heard frequently, and I can at least say that it’s true in my own blog reading, that people want consistency from blogs–if they start to expect politics and snark and suddenly they get introspection and recipes, the readership falls away. You put a Shannon from Nudemuse on SP, people come expecting snark, they get hippieness, the commentariat gets mad, Shannon isn’t getting the kind of readers she wants, it would be more diverse but I don’t think that would be a better blog. So let me rephrase from before–I hope SP as a community will become open and actively welcome and pursue snarky, academic writers from backgrounds not now represented. I will try to consciously be part of that, as a commenter, myself.
I also know that quibbling with examples can be a way to ignore the main point without seeming intolerant, and I may have been doing that, for which I apologize. SP has done a lot for my own relationship with my body and I’m very attached to it (the blog (and my body)) but I also belong to most of the privileged groups who were being called out. I really appreciate those of you who have taken the time to educate me on this.
The whole question of style is a completely minor point compared with the necessity of communities to be open to different voices and people in power to check their privilege, as you, sparkymonster, Etana and others around the fatosphere have been pointing out. I’m kind of sorry I took us down this road, but I appreciate both of you giving me the chance to explain myself reasonably, and thanks to both of you for calling me out.
@ sparkymonster–I thought your essay was great, and I’m very sorry that the Shapely Prose community is losing you. Thanks for putting in the time that you did and for taking the time to educate me.
And sorry for writing a novel.
I also felt unwelcome at SP, even though I share many of the same privileges as the writers — white, cisgendered, upper middle class, on the heteronormative side of things — but I ultimately decided that I needed to focus elsewhere because I felt it was not a safe and welcoming space for me. I happen to belong to a faith that tends to be remarkably unpopular among most liberal commentators and SP did nothing but conform to those expectations. While I can accept a few cracks about the Pope and condoms (I didn’t design my religion!), I found myself unexpectedly hurt by the fact that the bloggers — who claim to maintain a relatively safe and respectful space — thought it was completely acceptable to leave comments about how, you know, the Catholic Church never condemned the Holocaust or acknowledged its existence, and how the Church is just misogynistic, misogynistic, misogynistic, and so on until I finally just decided that it wasn’t a safe place for me to read anymore. Those comments came after the first post by A Sarah, in which she implied that the views of one deacon were akin to the views of the entire Church and everyone who belongs to it, and I just had enough.
I realize that in comparison to a lot of other people this is nothing at all to whine about, but I was very hurt that there was such a willingness to let virulently anti-Catholic viewpoints stand because they were *personal opinions*. Like I said, I don’t mind people talking negatively about the Church’s stance on abortion, or anything–haha, definitely not– but it’s still quite irritating to realize that upon telling someone that their article was written with an offensive slant, SP’s response is, “Oh? How? I don’t understand how you could have come to that conclusion.”
That is, I think, the crux, and I do really hope that a multicultural, multi-ethnic, multi-faith, multi-gender, etc., community really emerges within the FA community. I don’t know where I read it, but somewhere I read this great statement, that it wasn’t any person of any particular identity’s duty to educate you on your shortcomings, but rather, once pointed out, you should try to figure out what it was. I hope we can all figure out together, rather than excising different people from the discussion.